My man Mike jumped into the metaphorical fray noting that Artest's fine was wayy too harsh, and conservatives should defend him. I believe that Stern's judgment was appropriate. If it is overturned and replaced with something far more lenient, I'll be ok with that too. Cobb's central argument is correct. If the fan(atic) doesn't throw the beer, NOTHING HAPPENS.
But of course conservatives will not only sit idly by, they will be on the other side.
The first reason is the obvious one. There's this sticky issue of white privilege going on here. Of COURSE black people who make millions of dollars by performing for white audiences should simply take whatever derision is laid upon them. What? Did I say something wrong? Drunk? So what. What Ron Artest should do in that situation is to TAKE IT. He should be happy to be there. Lucky they don't throw his ass out.
This is the obvious one. One that folks like Mike who emphasize blackness in their conservatism have to recognize.
But the second reason? This incident represents the further coarsening of American culture writ large. In as much as conservatives really do want to stem the tide of uncivilized behavior, I don't see how they can make a call for more civilized discourse and behavior and at the same time defend Ron Artest and protect him from sanction.
This is actually why I actually support punishment, but at the same time support Ron Artest's right to contest the ruling. Because at some point we have to begin to act humanely...and reclaim those Old School Values that make us different and unique.
Green is white.
Posted by: Juliette at November 23, 2004 07:46 PMThere are numerous reasons why this situation has to, HAS TO, be zero-tolerance. The first of which is the almighty dollar.
Not just fans, but sponsor dollars. The NBA has to make a statement with this incident, and did vis a vis the suspensions handed out, and say that this type of behavior will not be tolerated by the NBA.
The reason was much less a 'moral' reason than a 'fiscal' one. Fans need to feel safe in the stands and sponsors need to know that the fans their soliciting will be safe.
Take the financial aspect out of this, and the fines are less severe.
Then we come to the infamous 'soda'. Personally, if it was me, I would have jumped up but not gone into the stands. Why? Because I know that a) I'm going to get blamed for this, b) other cats are going to be talking about me for months, and c) black people are going to have to defend this action by 'over-paid, over-sized' black men.
Sadly, that's what we're doing here.
Posted by: don at November 24, 2004 09:30 AM
I guess part of my problem is that I have never seen the tape, but have only listened to extensive descriptions of it on ESPN radio over several days, as well as read about it online.
So I have no idea whether or not this cat Green who has been identified as the drunk fan (with a criminal record & multiple drunk driving convictions) is white or black. Nor have I tried to guess whether the crowd at the Palace is mostly white or black. Race hasn't figured into my logic in this matter as much as it did with the Latrell Sprewell incident several years back. I think it makes a lot less difference in this case than it did with Janet Jackson or the Monday Night Football thing.
Be that as it may, I acknowledge that there is an issue with the 'Larry Bird' sentiment about whitefolks not as enthusiastic about basketball as blackfolks and I know that a lot of flacks are coming out their necks about ignorant black athletes who make 'too much money'. But I think those racist arguments are too easy to handle and not the real kind of forces that are moving Stern's hand in this matter.
Again, I see anyone who sees punishment as the solution, anyone who jumps on the zero-tolerance bandwagon as part of the problem. Yes, this is the kind of problem that Conservatives traditional are part of, quick as they are to jump on the law and order trope. But the conservative interest in limited liability is even greater and this is the point I'm trying to drive home; or perhaps I betray myself as a fiscal conservative rather than a cultural conservative.
Posted by: Cobb at November 23, 2004 06:45 PM