This post by Ambra got me ta thinkin'.
If we as a society believe that we should not lower standards, and that we as a society strives to be one based on merit, why do the following exist without much comment?
My major was a part of the engineering school. Would you want someone designing a bridge who had a grade average of 75, but a curve adjusted average of A-?
Just some questions.
Consistancy is what I wish.
Did you know that around 85% of Blacks who attend college, attend colleges where they are within the standard deviation of the mean SAT/ACT requirements?
Is there even a similar statistic available for whites? Or is it assumed that if a person is white, they are qualified?
I dated a woman who was in the admissions department of a university. What happened at her school, and stories I heard from other people in admissions, made me strongly doubt the "lower standards" argument. It turns out that the admissions process is more subjective than the public is lead to believe.
Additionally, for Black students, they are more likely to leave a college, not necessarily drop out of college, because of funding concerns, not performance.
What was missed in the California affirmative action debate, was the fact that the graduation gap between Black and white students was drastically closed when the time for graduation was expanded from 4 years to 6 years. Yet, it was not clear if the extra 2 years needed was due to lack of academic preparedness or funding issues.
Here is another example. When CEO looked at the qualifications for Blacks vs. whites at the University of Virgina, the CEO report claimed that Blacks were not qualified. Yet, the University of Virginia had a graduation rate for Black students that matched that of the white students.
When CEO looked at Bowie State University, they claimed that Black students were less qualified than white students. The problem with the report was, they didn't take into account that Bowie is an HBCU. Not only that, they merged the stats for the day program with the evening program. The day program is mostly Black. The evening program, is more racially balanced.
You keep missing the point about the unique odiousness of lowered standards based on race. That is instrinsically and morally different than grading curves, legacy or "dumb jock" admissions, etc.What is uniquely odious about it? What is the intrisic difference? Posted by: P6 at September 9, 2004 01:25 AM
OH COME ON NOW, YOU KNOW THE ANSWERS. FIRST ..."H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y" SECOND... "D-U-P-L-I-C-I-T-Y" THIRD... "S-M-O-K-E-S-C-R-E-E-N" FOURTH... "B-A-M-B-O-O-Z-L-E".
HMMMM,NEED I SAY MORE?
GDAWG
Posted by: GDAWG at September 10, 2004 09:58 AM"...You keep missing the point about the unique odiousness of lowered standards based on race. That is instrinsically and morally different than grading curves..."
Exactly.
But when I'm shopping for an Oncologist, I don't want the best black oncologist nor the best white oncologist nor the best Asian oncologist.
I just want the best oncologist.
Posted by: True_Liberal at September 11, 2004 08:46 AMYeah Right. I'm reminded of these odious phone surveys. When queried over the phone lines about certin matters folks alway seem to boast the "right Talk and Speak. But when the rubber hits the road. Well.... that's horse of the diffrent color. No pun intended.
By the way ,many medical surveys of various ethnic groups contradict your opinion as to what type (Ethnicity) of doctor you may want when you're ill.
Most whites (85-90%) seek care from white phyisicians.If you need references I can provide or see the recent work from Lisa Cooper,M.D. of Johns Hopkins which point out this reality and suggest solutions) Most blacks and hispanics want their own kind to care for them, be it related to language or other culture proclivities. Its their choice. But they are not able to get to one of theior own due to the anemic representation of blacks, in this instance, in the profession. I think the the historical data ( and present day tribulations) will confirm this for you. Or you can read the works of Drs. Byrd and Clayton for background of Haravard Medical school for more clarification and enlightenment.
Make me wanna holler!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GDAWG
"...Most blacks and hispanics want their own kind to care for them, be it related to language or other culture proclivities. Its their choice..."
With results that I'd call Darwinian.
Posted by: True_Liberal at September 18, 2004 08:27 AMAnd your point is what? I mean do you mean Darwinian as in eugenic notions and genetic predispositons to diseases or ?.
Personally, I don't see why it's so peculiar for persons to feel comfortable when being care for by other persons of similar backgrounds or whatever. It is THEIR choice. My idea of darwinian ideas in human relations, at least in the western world, is more sinister in light of the history of darwinian philosophy. Perhaps you can explain your point a bit more.
GDAWG
You keep missing the point about the unique odiousness of lowered standards based on race. That is instrinsically and morally different than grading curves, legacy or "dumb jock" admissions, etc. I don't understand why you regard this so lightly and express wonder that some people believe skin color distinctions are not the same as the other things you mention.
Posted by: LB at September 8, 2004 07:49 PM