Vision Circle

In Paris 1919 President W.Wilson presented and created with other western countrys his league of nation fourteen points,included was a paper dealing with minorities(giving them rights) in the selected countries whats important that the USA refuse to have this point applied to America.At the Paris conference was a young HO Chi Mein who pettion the conference on behalf of his Bro.Sis caught in slavery by the French(Indochina)but he soon found that there was another way to achieve freedom.One group terroist is another freedom fighter.
tootsie

Muhammad himself led acts of terrorism, although no one called them that. He conducted wars against neighboring people to spread his new religion, and terror was how he kept them converted. He was a slave-owner, and a child rapist. There is an unbroken line between Muhammad and the slave trade that continues to this day in the Sudan.

When people say, "We love death", when they blow up their own children because religious leaders promise them virgins in the afterlife, when they make videos of beheadings and stonings and spread them through the internet, you should take them at their word. And you shouldn't believe this started yesterday.

Americans have come to believe that slavery was a western institution because historians have made a point of lying about it. But it was universal. It even existed in North America long before the Europeans came here. What is remarkable about US history is not that we once had slaves, but that we fought a war to end it. Judaeo-Christian teachings played a part in that. The Muslims will never fight such a war.

Dom

"although no one called them that."

Dom, that's important. When scholars talk about race in the 10th century for example, they are careful to note that race as we know it simply did not exist back then...and projecting a current concept backwards causes all types of problems. Should we say that David was a terrorist? That Moses was a terrorist? Going down this particular intellectual thread causes all types of problems...before we even begin to grapple with the Crusades.

I've heard the virgin argument before, particularly from Stanley Crouch. The significant problem here is that WOMEN are now engaged in these acts. Do they want virgins too?

Finally, the form of slavery that America practiced was unique in the history of the world. What Juliette is implying is that somehow Christianity was responsible for both ending IT, and its forerunner (Jim Crow terrorism). I believe that given how Christianity played a role in the enslavement in the first place, it makes much more sense to argue that enslaved Africans and their descendants played a role in ending slavery and Jim Crow.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

You're simply defining terror in such a way that the original question ("Was terrorism practised my Muslims centuries ago?") will answer itself. The definition is unimportant. The fact is that Islam (and virtually all other religions) were spread by the sword. Christianity evolved into a religion that ended this, Islam did not.

If you like, I can find an article published in a respected Egyptian newspaper, by a Psychiatrist (yes, a Psychiatrist) who claims that all suicide bombers will attain a state of bliss in paradise. There is a terrifying passage in which he counts out "5, 4, 3, 2, 1, bliss." The man encourages Muslims to sacrifice their children this way. A similar article was written by Syria's minister of defense.

America's slave trade was unique, but so was (is) Sudan's, Native American's, etc. In every case, it is different. But the important point is that only Judeao-Christian nations ended it. I don't belive that anyone ever claimed that African-Americans did not play a role. You can't help but be stirred by the writings of Fredrick Douglas, and you also can't help but see the biblical images in his essays.

Your recents posts have all been interesting, but what I find disturbing is that you find a way to claim that what is happening now in Sudan is somehow different, and therefore should be ignored.

Dom

in order:

1. this is a good point, and i'll try to rephrase my reply. juliette's argument appears to be that islam is naturally a violent war-prone religion. in response i asked whether what we thought of as "terrorism" was always associated with islam, or whether it was a new development. as "terrorism" is a new development itself, perhaps the way i'm asking the question is unfair. a better question would go as follows: if we could "port" our conception of terrorism back to the beginning of islam on the one hand and both judaism and christianity on the other, would islam as a religion be more associated with "terrorist activity" than the other religions? Juliette's answer is seemingly yes...my answer is no.

2. there are many reasons why suicide bombers engage in their activity. i'm willing to bet that their belief that they are engaging in a righteous cause is primary. but this is a different argument than saying that people are engaging in suicide bombing because they want virgins.

3. from what i know about slavery, only america practiced a form of chattel slavery that equated the enslaved with objects. if forms of slavery could be placed on a continuum, i'm betting that the US version would be among the worst. no legal rights, no human rights, no family rights, etc. sudan is horrific on another dimension--it still exists. But my central point was that the primary reason slavery (and Jim Crow) ended in the US was the central involvement of enslaved Africans and later on their descendants. Here I'm critiquing what I believe to be Juliette's assertion that Christianity did the heavy lifting.

ابنى مريض عندة اعانة ذهنية متوسطة و يعانى من صعوبات فى التعلم . وهو عندة ملحق فى امتحان الأعدادية ولن يحصل على اكثر من 50% , فهل يجوز مساعدتة فى الأمتحان و التوصية علية بان يقوم المراقبين برعايتة و تزكرتة بالمعلومات الازمة؟
هل حلال ام حرام؟

ابنى مريض عندة اعانة ذهنية متوسطة و يعانى من صعوبات فى التعلم . وهو عندة ملحق فى امتحان الأعدادية ولن يحصل على اكثر من 50% , فهل يجوز مساعدتة فى الأمتحان و التوصية علية بان يقوم المراقبين برعايتة و تزكرتة بالمعلومات الازمة؟
هل حلال ام حرام؟

i want to know when did the Emam Ahmed Ebn Hambel dide?

and who are the six mothers in islam by names?
and who is the furth mother in islam?

thanks alot and i am waiting to your reply

I would like just to ask those who are stating Mohammad(*)was a terrorist and that he used "terrorism" to spread the religion, if they read all the history of Islam ? I am sure they did not !
Just read about the return to Mekka, The prophete and all his deciples entred Mekka without killing nor distructing anything was in their road !
What can you say about the Jewish and Christians who were living in the city of Madina at that time ?? Where they killed or persecuted?
One fundamental thing i learned in Islam is that you can not force people to be muslim ! You can say:" but now muslims are stated as "terrorists"", well do not consider an extrimistic minority as all muslims, we will than consider all Irish people or Spanish, or Amercains who killed Indians as terrorists!!
Just make a right and objective reflection to see things clear without hate and prejudice.
Peace with you all.