I had the chance to see Ann Coulter yesterday. Among other things she talked about the importance of protecting marriage against sodomites. One of the students asked her if she would be interested in adding a clause in the Constitution stating that gays were only 3/5 of a person. She blew this off, noting that gays weren't hosed like blacks were, and that the two groups of people have very distinct histories. Baldilocks, Jesse Jackson, and others agree with her.
I can understand the general argument. Using the rhetoric of the Civil Rights Movement to apply to something a lot of conservative African Americans disagree with can piss folks off. But when Coulter talked about how gays weren't hosed by dogs in Birmingham, the only thing I could say (and I couldn't help it) to my students was:
The black gays were.
There are a whole lot of conservative African Americans who agree that marriage should be between a man and a woman. But there are a whole lot of black African Americans who are in love and unable to marry because of their sexual preference. What about them? If the issue is some form of "cultural ownership" then I'd think that Luther Vandross, Langston Hughes, and others have as much right to claim the movement as conservative baptists.
There are Blacks and there are blacks who are gay.
The Black people who are gay have two strikes against them. They are fighting two fights. They are having trouble fighting one. Being Black in America. I will let you in on a note that the black civil rights movement should not be in correlation with the gay rights. There are gays who are racist but in this fight many of the homosexual community will not admit that.
Overall Morally and Spiritually homosexuality is an Abomination. In institutionalized racism, existing as a black person is abominable. One of these institutions are lies. I would take the latter. It is not a sin to the world or a threat that a black man exist. Only to institutionalized and embedded racism, built on a lie that European Scientist thought up. It is homosexuality, lesbianism, adultery, bigomy, beastiality, premarital sex, pornography, drug abuse, abortion, obesity, racism, greed, pride, arrogance, and all other manner of immorality that goes on in america, even around the world, that will have this country to go under. I hate it! There I said it!! I hate SIN!! And whether you like it or not, homosexuality is SIN!! You may call me a homophobe, but I am not. Don't label me. I just speak what's right. We (as a human)think we too smart, we so intelligent we know what is bothering us and why we are the way we are. We don't need accountability. We know how to become a better people. Look around. We are in moral decay, when evil is good and good is evil. The more tollerant we get of sin, the lesser a people we will become. We are dismissing God and in the end, God will dis us. Worse things can happen and when they happen (unless we repent) don't ask, why God? Ask yourself why? People who are (Christian) clergy and are marrying gay people, ordaining gay bishops and ministers, and supporting homosexuality as acceptable in Christian Practice are in danger(unless they repent).
Anyway. Blacks and Gays should not share the same purpose. Homosexuality is a mentality. Being black is Reality, a materialized existance. You can hide that fact that you are homosexual from society, but you can't hide being black. No 35 year old stone white or asian person could ever say "ever since I was a child I knew that I was different than all the others, I always thought in the inside I was black. That would be unacceptable and that person would need to seek help. Because it would be that persons mentality, not genetic make-up, but that's another issue.
I think you and I agree on one thing, but disagree on another. We agree in that there is no "fuzzy ground" here. You're either right, or you're wrong. Where we disagree is on the sides. I believe that the issue that gay men and women are fighting over is RIGHT. Not simply in a relative civil rights sense, but in a deeply universal spiritual sense.
Posted by: lks at March 17, 2004 03:09 PMI think you are correct in condeming violence toward people who have a same sex attraction (gay or lesbian). I have a good friend who is gay and a cousin who is gay. I would defend and protect them both from harm with my very life. No one deserves to be beaten or condemmed because of their beliefs.
The logic being used to support gay marriage, however, cannot be compared to discrimination against blacks. No one, to my knowledge, ever said that black men and women could not get married even when slavery existed in this country. Thank God slavery was abolished! It was an abomination!
I think people are comparing apples and oranges though. Heterosexual marriage is a universal feature of humankind with historical and anthropological roots. Heterosexual marriage existed way before society, as we know it, was created. Heterosexual marriage is the fundamental building block of any society. Gay marriage, however, is merely a cultural feature that is not necessary for the continuation of humankind.
I think that before we start redifining marriage and rebuilding the key building block of society we do some serious research to determine the possible affects of gay marriage in our country. Our children are precious and should not be treated as an experiment. I understand that this issue is emotionally charged and real people are getting real hurt. I am sensitive to this fact. But, do we make an irreversable change to society, that could prove to be disasterous, to make a few people satisfied at the expense of everyone else? The Scandanavian countries have gone down this path 10 years ago and they are experiencing disasterous fallout now from gay marriage and civil unions. People who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
Posted by: Rich at June 19, 2004 05:59 AMThe gay marriage issue is one that has pereplexed me for awile. The majority of African-Americans oppose gay marriage. This is based on the strong presence of the Black church throughout our communities. Now as a Christian I have my thoughts on homosexuality and what it all means in a theological sense. However, in dealing with the rights of American citizens I don't think that is the argument that can suffice. The truth of the matter is that America is comprised of many people who are not only not Christian, but many who don't believe in a diety at all. However they are still Americans and are still proteced by the Constitution of the United States. In saying that, In the realm of legal arguments, theological arguments can't suffice, because they are not applicable in everyone's life. I don't think the definition of marriage should change...It leaves the door open to too many variations of marriage: pologomy, incest..etc However, I strongly support some form of civil unions for gay and lesbian couples. As an African-American it troubles me that there are couples who are not allowed to visit loved ones in hospitals, inherit assets, and a host of other things that married couples are able to recieve. The reality is that there ARE MANY Americans who have gay relationships, and in the spirit of the constitution i think they should be afforded certain rights. From my own past experiences and the history of this country it troubles me how many in the country treat gays and lesbians. Becasue as Chris Rock states " I know niggas and jews is next" A little humor, but in all seriousness, It just baffles me that so many Americans are set in not offering any type of alternative for Gay and Lesbian couples to protect their relationship...You don't have to condone it or believe in it to understand that All American citiezens are to be treated fairly and equally.
Posted by: AB at December 12, 2004 11:53 AM
Good point, well put! I haven't seen anyone else put it in quite the same terms, but (as is often the case with good points), once you get it out there it seems so obvious.
Posted by: susan at March 8, 2004 02:09 PM